tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6620698560611640068.post3559034425726577140..comments2024-03-21T06:36:04.196-05:00Comments on The Idol-Head of Diabolu, a Martian Manhunter blog: Post-Pointal Discussion: J'Onn J'Onzz and the Justice LeagueDiabolu Frankhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04685199809207954223noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6620698560611640068.post-46069550369420995892011-06-08T12:20:35.719-05:002011-06-08T12:20:35.719-05:00Ironically, I'm okay (for the most part) with ...Ironically, I'm okay (for the most part) with the current "matured" version of Booster Gold that Jurgens and Johns have been writing. In my eyes, he was less of an arrogant jerk and more of a naive dupe in his original 80's series, a blog post which I never got around to writing. Giffen and DeMatteis made him more of a jerk for his JLI years for comedy's sake. At least, this is my pet theory. The same thing happened when G&D took over Boster's current book, which is why some fans cried foul at how Booster had taken a step "backwards."<br /><br />But I get where you're coming from that the dude shouldn't be in a mentor role, which is possibly one more reason which I never considered that makes me not like the Booster/Jaime Reyes dynamic. In fact, he is less fun, but with Johns's ability to pull heartstrings (okay, mine at least), his stories worked. And Jurgens playing him as the butt of the A-listers jokes and as a perennial screw-up, endeared him to me nonetheless. Without any of those dynamics, (i.e. "Generation Lost") he struck me as both un-funny AND un-sympathetic.<br /><br />Well, sorry to spam your Martian Manhunter blog with Booster Gold comments.<br /><br />"John Jones" showing up in Vertigo was a stroke of genius. (Have you read his appearances there?) Maybe because it was a cameo, and he works best in small doeses. Maybe becuase we saw him through the eyes of another charater, thus sustaining some mystery about him. But it just clicked for me in a way I hadn't seen since American Secrets. Maybe he should just hang out in Vertigo, in lots of flashbacks, instead of the JLA?LissBirdshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17059648604602469375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6620698560611640068.post-91626287119821504302011-06-08T09:30:47.853-05:002011-06-08T09:30:47.853-05:00I do get your drift. For me, the JLI worked best w...I do get your drift. For me, the JLI worked best when you had the the screw-ups (Guy, Ted, Booster) mingling with the pros (J'Onn, Dinah, Batman) and those falling closer one side side (Bea, Tora) or the other (Carter, Mr. Miracle) within the mid-range. It's tough to argue that a sonic scream is more effective than a magical wish-granting ring, so a lot of the fun is in those who can't do teaching, and those who do entirely too much. It's much better to have Booster Gold on the side of angels than otherwise, which is why I get so mad at Ted for going along with that embezzling scheme, because he's the one who's supposed to have a moral center. Booster today is like a drunk who becomes a sober born again type. Not only does he stop being fun, but outright when someone so debauched tries to define heroism for others. Somebody has to be there to mock his self-righteousness and point out his flawed logic, and I don't see Dan Jurgens or Donna Troy doing that. The result, not to get Marvel on you, is being asked to take guys like Hercules or Angel seriously. I don't care how many bladed objects or how much angst you attach to those guys, they're schmucks to be laughed at. Don't pull a Steve Martin, you jerks!<br /><br />I would love a '50s set Martian Manhunter series, but outside of Vertigo, I don't think it would be sustainable as more than a mini-series. Jonah Hex is about the only period ongoing on the market, and that's been kept alive by above average trade paperback sales. What I'd recommend is a contemporary set series with a lot of extended flashbacks, coming in through the back door.Diabolu Frankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04685199809207954223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6620698560611640068.post-59404215137795220572011-06-08T00:17:26.771-05:002011-06-08T00:17:26.771-05:00Hear hear, Frank. Excellent write up of J'onn...Hear hear, Frank. Excellent write up of J'onn's history...some of which I wasn't aware of.<br /><br />So am I reading you right that the Martian Manhunter would function better as a character on his own, without the League? If so, my indulgent solution to that would be a series set pre-League, mid-50's. The reason American Secrets works (for me, at least), is that, becuase J'onn is alone and in his own "universe" so-to-speak, he *can't* be a foil to anyone. There is no precedent, there is no shadow of other characters to live up to/be compared with, etc. Put the Martian in the 50's, and I think his stories would be a lot more interesting.<br /><br />But that's just my very biased opinion. I mean, if they're re-starting/re-booting continuity, a book set in the past could easily be done. If we're going to reboot the DCU, why not bring J'onn right back to his detective noirish origins, with a smattering of the weird?<br /><br />"J'Onzz's presence in the new line-up would cast a pall over Booster Gold, Guy Gardner, Fire and Ice, who are now trying to establish themselves as respectable and self-reliant." See, this is what bugs me...there's just no going back to the JLI with characters who've "grown" and "matured" and who take themselves seriously. On the whole, these characters shouldn't be taken seriously, otherwise, you kill the joke. I want to see a bunch of morons acting like morons so I can laugh at (and with) them, not a bunch of angst-ridden C-listers who take themselves as seriously as Superman and company. Then again, I don't want a complete plunge into outright absurdity like the later issues, but you get my drift.LissBirdshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17059648604602469375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6620698560611640068.post-20075573434507631862011-06-07T22:44:46.651-05:002011-06-07T22:44:46.651-05:00Ryan, depending on the creative team, I could roll...Ryan, depending on the creative team, I could roll with DCU Presents. I'd be bummed to get great guys for just one arc, but I'd hate to suffer losers on an ongoing. The one downside to the anthology format is that plot trumps all, so any real development of things like a supporting cast would be unlikely.<br /><br />I had a tough time with artists, since they're less reliable than writers when it comes to consistent publishing presence, but tomorrow's post is a list of creative suspects for a Martian Manhunter series (if applicable) with my usual color commentary...Diabolu Frankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04685199809207954223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6620698560611640068.post-28495527059515687332011-06-07T21:13:27.299-05:002011-06-07T21:13:27.299-05:00Additionally, Gail Simone just "tweeted"...Additionally, Gail Simone just "tweeted" (sigh) that the launch books coming in September do not comprise all of the new books coming forth. This is true since Batman, Inc. is restarting with an #1 in 2012, but Simone's comment suggests a few other books are in the works, too.Count Drunkulahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18130778855882160092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6620698560611640068.post-49726776076798380112011-06-07T20:39:50.790-05:002011-06-07T20:39:50.790-05:00Well, DC is down to just 18 more #1 titles to unve...Well, DC is down to just 18 more #1 titles to unveil, at least for books coming in September. I'm less confident of a Manhunter from Mars book than I was last weekend, but I still think it could happen. And if not, well, that sucks, but also: DCU Presents would be a good place for a 4-5 issue J'onn story.<br /><br />Paul Jenkins just did a Word Balloon podcast interview with John Siuntress where he described the book as a place to distill the essence of each character in a short multi-issue story. Sounds like--in the absence of an ongoing--that would be a good place to pseudo-reboot J'onn J'onzz and build up his status quo and supporting cast.<br /><br />And Frank, I've got to ask now: Is there a particular art team you would prefer for a MM book from DC's current stable of writers and artists?Count Drunkulahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18130778855882160092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6620698560611640068.post-18775283716820696042011-06-07T19:48:42.108-05:002011-06-07T19:48:42.108-05:00Frank, you know I love you, right?
Just making su...Frank, you know I love you, right?<br /><br />Just making sure :)mathematicscorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15439579069513071094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6620698560611640068.post-89287019245339619692011-06-07T18:58:57.871-05:002011-06-07T18:58:57.871-05:00M.C., I slag on Tomasi, but there are far, far wor...M.C., I slag on Tomasi, but there are far, far worse choices out there. Thankfully, the announcements to date have tied both Tomasi & the Awful Makers to enough books that I don't think they'd have room on the schedules anyway. I have recently, finally read and am working on write-ups for the 2006 mini-series. Cay'an was... something. I like her better than Malefic or D'Kay, but more because her story was so moronic and utterly irrelevant that she was comparatively inoffensive. I'm working on liking Malefic because I've had to acknowledge that I'm stuck with him, and he has some redeeming qualities. D'Kay though-- what a waste of space. Oh, and <a href="http://nurgh.blogspot.com/2009/03/nightwing-freefall.html" rel="nofollow">about Tomasi's Nightwing...</a><br /><br />Ryan, I've got to agree with M.C., Outsiders or Batman Inc get a thumbs down from me. J'Onn already came out of <i>Detective Comics</i>, and usually defers to Batman's leadership in the League. Sticking him on one of the Dark Knight accessory teams would basically brand the Martian Manhunter's butt as Batman country. That doesn't mean you're not on to something, just that I have something else to fret over.Diabolu Frankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04685199809207954223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6620698560611640068.post-78326138341639337322011-06-07T14:01:41.004-05:002011-06-07T14:01:41.004-05:00Well said Frank. I still am less interested in Le...Well said Frank. I still am less interested in Leagues that don't involve him, but agree that this may be a blessing in disguise. I decidedly don't want to see him in Outsiders or Batman Inc for much the same reasons you outlined. I hope they let him fly on his own for a while just having good adventures and being awesome. I actually think Tomasi would be a pretty good choice for that. Say what you will, Malefic and D'kay are both way better than Cay'an. Ostrander series weaknesses aside, that was a good run of varied, interesting adventures. If Tomasi can bring the level of his Nightwing run to a new MM series, you'd get no complaints from me.mathematicscorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15439579069513071094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6620698560611640068.post-80882306460029388972011-06-07T07:13:28.842-05:002011-06-07T07:13:28.842-05:00I still believe that one of the twenty-six #1s sti...I still believe that one of the twenty-six #1s still to be revealed will be a Martian Manhunter book. Whether it's an ongoing or not... I'm also confident that he'll find a place on a team book, as well.<br /><br />Now, I still think he'll be a presence in the Justice League book. Also, Dan Jurgens has said that the characters depicted in JL International #1 is the complete team roster for "that issue"; there could still be turmoil and turnover in those books. We haven't seen an Outsiders book solicited yet.<br /><br />Now here's a wild flight-of-fancy that I don't think has any chance of happening, but... What if J'onn became a part of Batman, Incorporated? They don't all have bat-themed gimmicks so he wouldn't have to change his identity really... Yeah, like I said, won't happen but it would elevate his status.Count Drunkulahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18130778855882160092noreply@blogger.com