tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6620698560611640068.post7776036562800045126..comments2024-03-21T06:36:04.196-05:00Comments on The Idol-Head of Diabolu, a Martian Manhunter blog: Does the Martian Manhunter Belong in Science Fiction?Diabolu Frankhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04685199809207954223noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6620698560611640068.post-89148584573029045562010-11-09T21:34:27.128-06:002010-11-09T21:34:27.128-06:00Luke, have you been reading Scipio's "Ape...Luke, have you been reading Scipio's "Apex City" posts, because you've definitely been drinking water bottled there? Middletown is so <i>Smallville</i> in its consistent weirdness, and I don't have a problem with J'Onn sharing some sci-fi time with an additional element grounded in "reality." I meant to and really should have titled this a rallying against "Science Fantasy" more than sci-fi.<br /><br />Liss, ditto! I like the <i>I Am Legend</i> dead family, but for me, J'Onn's life begins on Earth. I'm watching (and have long been reading) <i>The Walking Dead</i>, and Mars stories are like following Rick as a small town cop before the zombie plague. Why?Diabolu Frankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04685199809207954223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6620698560611640068.post-48932587364552770732010-11-09T19:24:19.700-06:002010-11-09T19:24:19.700-06:00I don't mind the Martian Manhunter as a "...I don't mind the Martian Manhunter as a "science fiction" character in the same way that Superman in the Silver Age is generally regarded as a "science fiction" character. He's the sort of hero who should have to deal with weird and bizarre crap every month. Because he's the Manhunter, nothing bothers him. Just snap off a wry little comment and take care of business. Put him on Earth, but in a city that attracts the most unusual sort of stuff, like Smallville in the early seasons. J'Onn would be the weird hero to the even weirder city, and the people would embrace him as "their hero" because of that weirdness. <br /><br />What's the old saying, in the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king? In the City of the Insane, the Weird Hero rules supreme.Lukehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07352646370918575626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6620698560611640068.post-91686075618586564102010-11-09T00:03:42.523-06:002010-11-09T00:03:42.523-06:00Oh, and hurry up with that whole writing-for-DC pr...Oh, and hurry up with that whole writing-for-DC prospect you mentioned. Someone who "gets it" needs to be writing the Manhunter from Mars, asap.LissBirdshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17059648604602469375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6620698560611640068.post-75561293097525300022010-11-09T00:01:06.102-06:002010-11-09T00:01:06.102-06:00Bravo on an excellent post that says what I couldn...Bravo on an excellent post that says what I couldn't about the same idea!<br /><br />"it still felt like a series about humans (one with a super-secret) struggling to maintain the status quo against these weird creatures."<br /><br />I think you hit the nail on the head right there, in my humble opinion. Any story that takes place on Mars, to me, has no tension whatsoever, because it's mostly backstory. A big chunk of the Ostrander series was about how Mars got destroyed. Well, just like I can't stand the Star Wars prequels becuase all I need to know is that Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader, I don't need to know the exact details of a character's backstory, especially becuase backstory implies <i>we already know how it turns out</i>. The only tension is in finding out how it turned out that way, and frankly I'm bored by what the name of the psychic plague was that wiped out J'onn's people or what the name of the planet was that Anakin and Obi Wan dueled on. Backstory is prologue...so why immerse a character who's already passive to begin with in a stagnant storytelling framework? This is part of the reason I can't keep all (or any) of the details of the Ostrander series straight becuase I just don't care about them, becuase they're just trivia.<br /><br />And like you said, with D'kay, we're right back where we were in the 90's, hitting all the same story beats, and all the story amounts to is listening to two people talk about what happened decades/centures/whatever ago. I guess you could say there's potential to have Mars and J'onn's family come back to life--but that's the last thing that should ever happen. Giving J'onn his family back means he quits the superhero business, gets what he wants, and lives out his retirement on Mars in contented bliss, giving up on Earth becuase he won't need Earth anymore.<br /><br />I like seeing character stay true to their original intention. The Manhunter from Mars was created to be a detective strip with a twist, and Martian history didn't enter into the story at all, becuase that's not what the character was about. Making him become a superhero always felt, to me, like putting a square peg in a round hole, only to satisfy the disbelief that couldn't be held to satisfy readers' need for verisimilitude just becuase Viking 1 got there and found nothing.LissBirdshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17059648604602469375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6620698560611640068.post-38233646548575069712010-11-08T22:15:28.199-06:002010-11-08T22:15:28.199-06:00I can appreciate that. If at the end of Brightest...I can appreciate that. If at the end of Brightest Day, he decided to set up a primary earth identity and start doing cool stuff, not dealing with Mars for a solid 50 issues or so (I wish!), I'd be pretty cool with that.mathematicscorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15439579069513071094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6620698560611640068.post-3264857953065158102010-11-08T21:24:35.592-06:002010-11-08T21:24:35.592-06:00Good point about the quality ratio, M.C. I guess i...Good point about the quality ratio, M.C. I guess it's important to note that sci-fi covers a lot of ground, where noir is much more specific in its conventions. I like when J'Onn is involved in firmer sci-fi, while the science fantasy stuff leaves me cold. I can handle Lovecraft/horror in smaller doses, but it seems like every third Manhunter story since the late '90s has tapped that vein. It worked for me in <i>Scary Monsters</i> and Neron's ties to Martian folklore, but the mysticism of "Rogues of Mars" and the like seem inappropriate for a scientist like J'Onn J'Onzz. Most importantly, I just plain want to see something different from the Ostrander mold (and I do mean mold) of the past fifteen years.Diabolu Frankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04685199809207954223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6620698560611640068.post-37483364246005408442010-11-08T20:51:42.059-06:002010-11-08T20:51:42.059-06:00I feel there are two camps on the question "w...I feel there are two camps on the question "what direction should J'onn J'onzz go." <br /><br />One would be the take the mindless ones blog took, that I linked a while back. http://mindlessones.com/2009/04/19/heroic-hype-martian-manhunter/<br /><br />There it is again.<br /><br />They argue for a rich Martian culture, with elements of horror and sci-fi and Lovecraftian madness in it's villainy. A Morrison/Johns era take with big ideas and weirdo action.<br /><br />The other camp is towards Martian Manhunter being a hero of earth who happens to be from mars, who deals with earth problems in the fashion of Superman and Batman, and the like. A recognizable, earthly milieu, a stable supporting cast, and an emphasis on earthly identities, ususally as detectives or spies; and thing that brings his other worldly powers into terran intrigue.<br /><br />I have love for both approaches. When J'onn was in the JLI and the JLTF, and had issues where he got to shine, I loved to see him punching out mind controlled Captain Marvel, or beating the crap out of three heavies in quick succession in the Underworld Unleashed tie in. Similarly, seeing as a fifties detective, a sixties superspy, and more recently CEOs and DEO agent is a lot of fun too.<br /><br />On the other hand I enjoyed "in my life" arc quite a bit, as well as the 1,000,000 issue and it's follow up as well. Rings of Saturn sits well enough with me. And I really enjoyed my recent aquisition of the Marshall earth mars war. Oh! and the Mongul story (mostly on potential)<br /><br />You make an excellent point that the noir stories have almost entirely been of higher quality than the sci-fi, but I'd argue that that ratio would probably hold true if you expanded it to all media. For every Slaughter House five or Starship Troopers, there are a metric ton of poorly written, lowbrow sci-fi novels. For every 2001: A Space Odyssey or Alien there's a load of Species or Battlefield earth. Granted, Noir's heyday is largely gone, but I feel there is a better ratio of noir works with artistic merit to poorly conceived tripe than there is for Sci fi.mathematicscorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15439579069513071094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6620698560611640068.post-43786795048572360042010-11-08T18:19:22.480-06:002010-11-08T18:19:22.480-06:00"Hawkman is... well, doing what Hawkman has a..."Hawkman is... well, doing what Hawkman has always done, but that's his thing."<br /><br />I couldn't have put that better myself!Lukehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07352646370918575626noreply@blogger.com